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Craig Anderson [00:00:00]:
After yet another round of layoffs, my HR partner looked at me and said, you're really good at this. Welcome to Executive Evolution. I have over 25 years of leadership experience in corporate America. I learned a lot of lessons the hard way, and I created this podcast so that you won't have to. There was one point in my career after helping to build up a business unit. We ended up eight years later tearing most of that business unit down. And I never had to lay someone off in my life until I got to that point as a leader. And one day after we had done yet another round of layoffs, the HR partner looked to me and said, you're really good at this.
Craig Anderson [00:00:41]:
And for a moment I was almost insulted. And I've actually, unfortunately, told the story that way before. The reality was, what she told me was, you're doing this with empathy and dignity for the people impacted. Maybe we can't change the decision as a middle manager or even a high level manager in an organization because it's being pushed down from us from above. But what we can control is how we treat the people who are impacted. That's just one of the things Caroline and I talk about today in the podcast is the importance of treating people with dignity and empathy as we go through our leadership role. So I'm excited to have Caroline Abuleta on the podcast this week. She is the co founder of Exploradoor and has had several leadership roles, both corporate and volunteer, over the course of her career.
Craig Anderson [00:01:27]:
So let's jump right into Caroline's story of her Executive Evolution. Caroline, thank you so much for being on Executive Evolution. Welcome to the podcast.
Caroline Abeleda [00:01:40]:
Thanks. It's nice to see you again.
Craig Anderson [00:01:42]:
Absolutely. And you've got. I'm excited about this. You've got a broad background. You're now leading in the not for profit space. You've had a lot of leadership roles in the for profit space, and I'm excited to get your insights on all this. So, are you ready to jump in?
Caroline Abeleda [00:01:55]:
Let's go for it.
Craig Anderson [00:01:57]:
All right, we are going to start us off with the lightning round, as we always like to do. What is the greatest book on leadership you have ever read?
Caroline Abeleda [00:02:07]:
Without question, leaders eat last.
Craig Anderson [00:02:10]:
Oh, really? So that's a great one. And we talk about that a lot. What really popped out to you from that one?
Caroline Abeleda [00:02:15]:
Well, I love anything around culture and organizational health and leaders who can create that kind of environment. And so when Simon Sinek really delved into leaders who model that and as a result, have this environment where people can thrive and most importantly, I think he turned it the circle of safety that really just resonated with me. And when you feel safe and trusted and valued, you can perform better at work. And more importantly, leaders model that from the top down. And I think you just feel safe and then as a result, you lead fulfilled just equally personally and professionally.
Craig Anderson [00:02:55]:
Yeah, no, I agree 100%. And it's so interesting to me that we were talking before we started recording about just leadership being kind of this real privilege, but it's also really hard in some ways because people don't realize that everything they do matters. And if they actually are eating last. Right. If they are taking care of their people, if they're getting things out of the way, those are the leaders that are going to build sustainable businesses. You can do it the other way, but your turnover is going to be high and it's probably not long term sustainable. So I think he's really hit on, we need to actually bring our kind of humility out first and then bring everybody along behind us.
Caroline Abeleda [00:03:31]:
Yeah. And I think the examples that he shared in that book and even how it's well modeled in the military where they're accustomed and trained and conditioned to, again, put their people first and make the sacrifice in the benefit of others versus, let's face it, in the corporate world and other places, they don't necessarily think like that.
Craig Anderson [00:03:52]:
Yeah. Right. Oh, yeah. No, it's all, oh, I have a privilege. And, yeah, those. And we've all worked for those leaders who think we exist to serve them and take care of them, when in fact, it's so different than that. If you wanna be successful.
Caroline Abeleda [00:04:04]:
Exactly. And you're sometimes successful at the expense of others, which again, is not necessarily part of how I think. And that's why that book resonates with me.
Craig Anderson [00:04:13]:
Love it. All right, next question. Who is your leadership crush?
Caroline Abeleda [00:04:18]:
My husband. And I joke about this because I tell him all the time, it's the author of leaders Eat last is Simon Sinek.
Craig Anderson [00:04:24]:
Okay. All right.
Caroline Abeleda [00:04:26]:
I said I love everything that man talks about, writes about, big fan. He's an idealist, but I love what he stands for. And again, I think the fact that he's been known to say a leader must love people in order to be, and be inspired by people in general in order to be able to lead and inspire people.
Caroline Abeleda [00:04:48]:
Right.
Caroline Abeleda [00:04:49]:
If you just generally don't have that in your core, then I think that's just a basic factor for being a leader.
Craig Anderson [00:04:57]:
Yeah. And more and more. And I think even generationally, right. We're looking for that so many people are looking for that leader who's actually inspiring them. And every business can have a mission. I mean, a lot of times think, oh, well, the missional organizations are not for profits, but we all start our businesses with a mission to fix some sort of big problem or small problem, whatever it is. Right. And how we get people to align with that.
Craig Anderson [00:05:19]:
And I think Simon Sinek taps into that. A lot of that mission orientation, bringing people along. And he is everywhere. Yeah. And the why, right. Yeah. If we don't have a why, why, you know, as I always like to say, I didn't need my team to jump out of bed listening to, you know, like, you know, a prince in a cartoon or something. Right.
Craig Anderson [00:05:35]:
With a song, singing in the sun, shining bright. But I also don't want them to drag themselves in. I want them to come in and feel like we're doing something that matters every day.
Caroline Abeleda [00:05:43]:
Right.
Caroline Abeleda [00:05:44]:
Well, and I. And I'm a big believer, though, too, that everyone has a different why.
Caroline Abeleda [00:05:47]:
Right.
Caroline Abeleda [00:05:48]:
Even if they're in a different level of management or what have you. It's. They may not say, this was my why to come here or get up in the morning, but how do you tap into that and how do you relate and more importantly, connect and align, whatever your purpose admission is to their why, it all can ladder up. And I just think Simon does a great job in putting vernacular around it. And I think since he has popularized many books, that just excites me now that it's resonating with the masses.
Craig Anderson [00:06:20]:
Oh, yeah, he's everywhere. I see his videos all the time.
Caroline Abeleda [00:06:23]:
I will say, though, someone else, when you posed that question, came to mind that I had the pleasure of doing a little, I guess, customer experience at Zappos way back when in my corporate life. And Tony Hsieh was also someone I admired and he cast too early in this world. But nonetheless, he taught me, or inspired me from a distance a lot about customer engagement and employee engagement. So he's another.
Craig Anderson [00:06:48]:
Yeah, no, and he was kind of like first wave of all that, too, right. As we started seeing kind of leadership change from that kind of command and control to more, hey, we're here to get everybody rolling in the same direction, get things out of the way. He was really in the forefront of that to say, this is how we do business, this is how we treat our customers. This is why we existed. And it was brilliant. It was very different at the time.
Caroline Abeleda [00:07:08]:
Yeah. When I went to tour Zappos and have that insight, I almost didn't want to leave. I was like, maybe I'll just do.
Craig Anderson [00:07:14]:
Yeah, yeah. Where were they? They were based where? Like, somewhere out west or Vegas.
Caroline Abeleda [00:07:19]:
Yeah, yeah.
Craig Anderson [00:07:20]:
There you go. There you go. All right. Last question in the lightning round is, how would you define leadership?
Caroline Abeleda [00:07:28]:
Well, first, I don't think leadership is a position or a rank. I think at the end of the day, it's just simply the responsibility to care, help, and develop others.
Craig Anderson [00:07:38]:
Yeah. I love that. And it's. I once had a consultant come into a group of people, and a guy said on the team, he said, well, I just don't have a title, so I can't get any of this work done. And, boy, I've never seen somebody lay into somebody so hard over that, because, you know, we lead every day how we show up. You don't have to have a title. We have. Can all come up with examples of people in organizations who are the informal leaders who are driving sentiment, effort, all those things, and they don't have to have a title to do it.
Caroline Abeleda [00:08:07]:
No, no. In fact, I think that it's a misnomer.
Caroline Abeleda [00:08:11]:
Right.
Caroline Abeleda [00:08:12]:
And it isn't about a rank or position or title. It's. It's really. If you're generally there to help others and achieve results through others.
Craig Anderson [00:08:19]:
Yeah. Yeah. And especially, like we talked before, is, you know, you do it a lot of different levels, and sometimes, you know, you. You may have the title, but it's a volunteer position, and you're leading volunteers. If you're not leading and inspiring and giving them their. Why.
Caroline Abeleda [00:08:33]:
Right.
Craig Anderson [00:08:33]:
You can't get a bunch of volunteers to do anything.
Caroline Abeleda [00:08:35]:
No. And I think it's. I think everyone needs to understand that you have the opportunity to lead, to influence.
Caroline Abeleda [00:08:43]:
Right.
Caroline Abeleda [00:08:44]:
And even if you're informally just being a role model.
Caroline Abeleda [00:08:46]:
Right.
Caroline Abeleda [00:08:47]:
You just need to know that you are influencing some way, good or bad, so be cognizant of that 100%.
Craig Anderson [00:08:53]:
All right, so let's go back in time a little bit. What do you consider to be your very first leadership role, professionally and personally?
Caroline Abeleda [00:09:03]:
I will. A little context. My dad emphasized as being the only Filipinos in our community at the time that when we started at a very early age, I remember at the age of six, he sat down and he says, here's the academic, personal, athletic expectations. So we are all well rounded. And he just said, I always want you to have a leadership position. No matter how old you are, what grade you're in, you always need to find one. And so that was ingrained in me.
Craig Anderson [00:09:32]:
Yeah.
Caroline Abeleda [00:09:33]:
So whether it's president of your class or some type of leadership role in the academic environment, it was just, like I said, ingrained. But I would say professionally. I had a sales supervisor role at a very early age at Lilly, and I was in Los Angeles overseeing part of a neuroscience district out there. So I think that was professionally probably my first role I can reflect on.
Craig Anderson [00:09:58]:
How did you end up in that role? Were you promoted over your peers?
Caroline Abeleda [00:10:01]:
I was, and back then it was a coveted role because they didn't have that many in the country, and Lilly was. Lilly is great at having developmental training, leadership training, and they're a powerhouse when it came to training and development. So to have a coveted role to develop from within was something I was blessed with. The second component is they typically wanted people to go back to corporate, and I got tapped to say, okay, we're going to try to develop you in the field. And so they created some new opportunities for me to develop into the management positions. And so this was one of those steps.
Craig Anderson [00:10:38]:
Nice. So when you think about kind of being a peer and then suddenly being the leader over those peers, how was that transition for you?
Caroline Abeleda [00:10:47]:
Well, it was. It was delicate. I wasn't looking for it. And so, you know, I was surprised and flattered and I was, you know, a little bit shocked that I was being asked to take on the additional responsibilities at that stage. But of course, I took, happily took the opportunity. But it was different because these are some of my mentors. They were my social acquaintances and friends, and now I'm going to be their manager. So I was very conscientious.
Craig Anderson [00:11:13]:
Yeah. Yeah. And how did the dynamic change? Because you kind of said these were people you socialize with, and now suddenly I'm doing your annual review, which is the least of it. But what did you notice kind of changed in the dynamic when that happened.
Caroline Abeleda [00:11:28]:
So, you know what? I followed my gut, though, in intuition, and I really called each of them that was going to be now on my team. And I remember vividly having those conversations, just being completely honest and saying, I'm a little nervous of this, and just, you know, saying, this is a developmental opportunity, we're friends, or you're my mentor. In fact, one of them onboarded me, right. And there was a significant age difference as well as he's my mentor. And I said, so I'm very self conscious. I don't know what I can do to add value for you specifically. I mean, you're the one who's mentoring me, and now I'm in this position. And so I think just being honest and vulnerable and sharing my candid thoughts and feelings.
Caroline Abeleda [00:12:13]:
They were so incredibly receptive and really helped diffuse some of that awkwardness that we could have had on both sides of. So I think they were very, they said, nope, Caroline, we're excited for you. This is great. We see why you can be a good leader, et cetera. And I think by asking their permission in a indirect way helped break down some natural barriers.
Craig Anderson [00:12:35]:
Well, and it sounds like, too, you've kind of. You. You acknowledged the awkwardness of it.
Caroline Abeleda [00:12:39]:
Yeah.
Craig Anderson [00:12:40]:
Right. It's like, hey, I know this is weird, but this is what it is. So what do we need to do from here? So how can I best help you be successful? Right, right, right. The other thing I'd love to dive into, because you were fortunate in many ways. A lot of companies kind of throw people into leadership roles because they're high performers and great individual contributors and like, okay, go, you're a leader now. And then they just let them hang. Sounds like you had the benefit of a lot of training. What kind of resources were provided to help you grow as a leader early on?
Caroline Abeleda [00:13:11]:
So, you know, I was also a trainer before I went into the management track when I guess that was part of my developmental opportunity as well. And so that afforded me access to the different resources of coaching, situational leadership, skill builders, things that, again, leadership development every quarter. And we just had a lot of resources, whether it's speaking engagements, whether it's actual experiential learning. We even had people that exercises, simulations back then that we would observe. In fact, fun fact, one of the people who was my observer in this video simulation, who we didn't know at the time, right. They're watching us go through some managerial simulations, and they're going to critique us at the end, is now the head of my board, of my nonprofit.
Craig Anderson [00:13:58]:
Nice, nice.
Caroline Abeleda [00:14:00]:
So full circle moment.
Craig Anderson [00:14:01]:
Yeah, that's too funny. So you went through all that and thinking back, what was the one big lesson you took away from that experience?
Caroline Abeleda [00:14:11]:
Well, one is going back to everybody. Everyone wants to be seen, heard, and valued.
Caroline Abeleda [00:14:18]:
Right?
Caroline Abeleda [00:14:18]:
And so the very fact that just having those one on ones and having those candid conversations to say, I see you and I see this awkwardness, but, you know, that might happen. And I. What you laid a foundation on, I want to know what works best for you. How can we add value to each other? I don't want to. I'm not a know it all. You've been doing this job longer than I have. And so just having that one on one with everyone but more importantly, uncovering with each of them, which I think I'm a big proponent of till this day, is asking them, how do you like to be coached? How do you like to receive feedback? What motivates you? Having those personal conversations and taking heart and applying what they share with me, I think that's the most genuine way of connecting and building trust.
Craig Anderson [00:15:03]:
I love it. I love it. All right, so now let's fast forward here you are co leading not for profit Exploradoor. What's key to your leadership now? How is it different for you, or how have you grown into this leadership role you have today?
Caroline Abeleda [00:15:20]:
So I think the biggest. Well, you're applying everything.
Craig Anderson [00:15:24]:
Yeah.
Caroline Abeleda [00:15:26]:
Right. You went from, you know, working in corporate entities with a lot of resources to now you're looking for resources, and you need to utilize and leverage all those resources. But the buck stops with you.
Caroline Abeleda [00:15:38]:
Right?
Caroline Abeleda [00:15:38]:
You don't have that safety net, but like I said, I think it's a great opportunity to leverage and apply everything that I've ever learned, whether it's identifying where to find resources, but more importantly, the vision and the execution all begins and ends with us.
Craig Anderson [00:15:56]:
Yeah. Oh, yeah. And that's really the thing, right? It's. Everything kind of rolls up to you when you're sitting in that leadership role.
Caroline Abeleda [00:16:02]:
I was just gonna say, I think that also the shift of manager versus leader in this type of work in a nonprofit sector, you're doing a lot of both.
Caroline Abeleda [00:16:11]:
Right?
Caroline Abeleda [00:16:12]:
You have to manage, organize, manage, align, and then in addition to that, you still need to lead where you need to execute on the same vision that you're trying to craft.
Craig Anderson [00:16:23]:
Yeah. And how is that for you? Because you have a team of people you're leading, but in kind of that not for profit role, and others in for profit have to have it in a different way. You also have a lot of outward facing work that you have to do. You're out fundraising, you're out working in the community, you're finding the people to serve. How does time management work for you in the leadership role today? That might be different when it was a. Maybe a more focused role.
Caroline Abeleda [00:16:46]:
Well, I think time management is always an art and a skill, right. Doesn't work for everyone's techniques and best practices don't necessarily work for others. But luckily, my co founder and I are different, meaning we complement each other's styles. And I think that's also very important because you got to find others that you work with that complement your style and maybe fill your gaps in areas of improvement. So the fact that she and I are complementary helps both in our work styles and our time management. And so how she does her work versus I, it's different, but we all can get the work done, and I think that's what matters most. And. But again, I think that the old adage of prioritization is key.
Craig Anderson [00:17:27]:
Yeah. Just figuring out what things need to be done. And how has it worked for you within this leadership role? Kind of building this from the ground up as a leader. Right. So you started this with your co founder and has grown over time. What's kind of developed and changed about leadership for you from a smaller to a growth organization? How has that kind of been evolving for you?
Caroline Abeleda [00:17:49]:
Well, I think it evolves in a lot of different ways. One is just trying to stay focused.
Caroline Abeleda [00:17:55]:
Right.
Caroline Abeleda [00:17:56]:
Being mission driven and remembering that is core. But I also think it's, you can't bite off more than you can chew, and so sometimes you might have an appetite to do more and try more, but the reality of it is you're a leaner operation, and so you really do have to be disciplined and stay focused on what is critical path, what can we do physically with the resources that we have? So I think it's really trying to balance that vision and prioritization, because, again, you have this idea, and sometimes you have this expectation and capacity to do more, but the reality is there's only so many hours in a day.
Craig Anderson [00:18:37]:
Oh, yeah. And it's a real challenge as a leader with an organization in growth mode, because there's hundreds of things that are coming at you that you can do both things to grow your mission, things to make your business work more effectively. And if you choose too many of those, you can quickly overwhelm the organization. So staying that kind of strategic focus of here's how we do, here's who we serve, this is how we do things. And kind of keeping you on that laser path is the thing that doesn't make you crazy is you're trying to grow a business.
Caroline Abeleda [00:19:06]:
Right.
Caroline Abeleda [00:19:07]:
And that takes a lot of discipline.
Craig Anderson [00:19:08]:
It does, yeah.
Caroline Abeleda [00:19:10]:
And self awareness.
Craig Anderson [00:19:11]:
Yes. Yeah. An underrated leadership core competency is self awareness, I think.
Caroline Abeleda [00:19:17]:
Yes, I agree wholeheartedly, because if you know yourself, then you can be that much more effective and impactful for others.
Craig Anderson [00:19:25]:
Yes. Yeah. And it's really hard, and it's really. That's such a trait that you have to develop to be a successful leader. I think otherwise, there's so many people, some of whom are blowing smoke at you, and you think you're awesome or beating you down and you think you're terrible. You have to kind of objectively stand outside of yourself and say, how am I doing as leader? Where am I making a contribution and where am I making a difference?
Caroline Abeleda [00:19:47]:
Exactly.
Craig Anderson [00:19:47]:
And then where could I be better?
Caroline Abeleda [00:19:49]:
And no, and know how that. Know really how you, your intention, how you impact others.
Caroline Abeleda [00:19:54]:
Right.
Caroline Abeleda [00:19:55]:
I just think that people can sometimes take leadership or management titles and assume they have the authority just to tell and be very tell assertive, not realizing the impact they're having on others. And I just think that's, again, a missed opportunity. Going back to Simon Sinek, I think what also is important that he says is when you're in a leadership position, you are leading others that are someone's son, daughter, spouse, sibling. And, you know, what they say about you when you go home is a reflection of your leadership. So take that responsibility to heart.
Craig Anderson [00:20:33]:
Yeah. Someone, an earlier guest on the podcast said something similar to that. Maybe it's came from cynic, but it was, you know, when he got promoted, the first thing his boss said to him is, you are now the topic of conversation at dinner for 40 people. And he said that sunk into him. And it was almost overwhelming to realize, that's me now. And everything I do is kind of dissected. And you both have to have an awareness of that, but you also have to be able to kind of work past it to say, sometimes I have to make the better decisions for the whole, even if it's sometimes tougher for the one. It's such a.
Craig Anderson [00:21:07]:
You don't think about that before you're in the chair.
Caroline Abeleda [00:21:09]:
Right.
Caroline Abeleda [00:21:10]:
But I think it goes, it also goes back to just know, make sure your intent and the impact are aligned.
Caroline Abeleda [00:21:15]:
Right.
Caroline Abeleda [00:21:16]:
Because even if it's not necessarily a positive situation, if you do your job well, then it should be articulated objectively and with the right tone and outcome.
Craig Anderson [00:21:27]:
Even when you have to do tough things, you can do tough things with empathy.
Caroline Abeleda [00:21:30]:
Right.
Caroline Abeleda [00:21:31]:
Yes. And preserve the dignity of people.
Craig Anderson [00:21:33]:
Right. Exactly. Last question, Caroline. I'm going to put you in a time machine. I don't know if you're a big science fiction fan. You can pick your time machine, DeLorean, timesphere, whatever you want to do. I want you to go back to Caroline in Los Angeles. I think you said in that first leadership role, what's the one piece of advice you'd give her that would help her be more confident, more successful, deal with the challenges she had?
Caroline Abeleda [00:21:56]:
I'd say emotional intelligence counts, soft skills matter. Back then, it wasn't necessarily valued as a skill and it wasn't valued as a strength. And so I think that's something that made me more self conscious because I felt like that's a big part of who I am. So I would definitely reassure myself at a younger, younger self that it does matter and it would help, I guess, build self confidence and really more importantly, give you more courage to find your own voice and be comfortable with who you are.
Craig Anderson [00:22:29]:
Love it. That's fantastic. Okay, so, Caroline, thank you, one, for the time today. Two, if people listen to the podcast, they want to connect with you. Learn more about Exploradoor, where are the best places for them to connect with you?
Caroline Abeleda [00:22:41]:
I'd say just simply on LinkedIn, I'm on both platforms. I mean, on both Exploradoor and my personal, LinkedIn is the best, best way to reach me.
Craig Anderson [00:22:49]:
Perfect. Well, we will drop links to both of those in the show notes so people can reach out. Thank you so much for being on today and sharing the story of your Executive Evolution.
Caroline Abeleda [00:22:57]:
Great. Thanks, Craig. Nice to see you again.
Craig Anderson [00:23:03]:
I really enjoyed that interview with Caroline today. She brought so many different perspectives to what's going on for her, her as a leader and how she has grown over time. I always like to break down the key insights from the conversation into the key leadership areas of being confident, confident and calm. In the area of confidence, early on, she realized the value of showing vulnerability, and it takes a lot of confidence to be vulnerable with direct reports, with the new team that you're leading. When she talked about in that first leadership role, she talked to everybody individually and said, hey, this is a little weird. It's a little different. And with those one on one conversations, they learned she was going to be honest with them. It built trust for her as a leader.
Craig Anderson [00:23:44]:
It's a really important skill set to be vulnerable, and it takes a lot of confidence as a leader to do that in the area of competence. I liked what she said about talking about aligning impact and intent. Right? There's a lot of impact we may want to have, but we also have to have an intent to achieve it. And so we want to look as a leader at balancing out. And it's a sign of confidence when you can balance those two ideas of what are my intentions for the business, what are my impact for the business? And even as a leader, because sometimes as a leader, our impact, our leadership style may be bad and we have a negative impact, even though our intent is to drive the business forward. So we really need to make sure were in alignment both as a leader and worth where were trying to grow as our business. And then finally in the area of calm. This is a little weird one, but when she talked about leaders eat last as a leader, we might think going into those roles that we're the hero of the story, that it's all about us and that can bring with it a lot of anxiety and a lot of stress.
Craig Anderson [00:24:40]:
But the reality is we're not the hero of the story. At best, we're the guide on the journey of the business. And we take away the pressure of ourselves, of being the hero, the person who's always out front brandishing the sword, driving everything forward. When we take that away and realize we're really just building and enabling and directing and moving all this energy forward, you can take some of that stress off of us and help us to remain calm. Remember, you can go from being an accidental leader to the greatest of all time leaders. All it takes is developing your confidence, competence and calm. We'll see you next time on Executive Evolution.