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Craig: If we don’t know who we are, we cannot lead effectively. This is Executive Evolution. I’m Craig Anderson, and my mission is to equip accidental leaders like me with the confidence, confidence, and calm to level up their leadership. This week on the podcast, we’re talking to Travis Brown, the CEO of Mojo Up.
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Craig: And I don’t always know where these interviews are going to go. We have our format that we follow. But the, the interviewee always takes me down an interesting path. And today you’re going to hear Travis talk a lot about some of his leadership principles, and a lot of it derives from this idea of character, authenticity, and integrity.
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Craig: And what. those really come down to for you to be effective as a leader, you have to know who you are and you have to be comfortable with who you are. If you start putting on a second skin over yourself to be the leader that you think you’re supposed to be, you’re going to be carrying the heavy burden of leadership and [00:01:00] also the burden of being someone you’re not.
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Craig: So what’s important for us to listen for in this interview today is how Travis really getting to know himself and learning about himself made him the effective and successful leader he is today. So let’s dive into this week’s interview.
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Travis Brown: Yes. I’m the founder and CEO of Mojo Up Marketing and Media. We’re a full service marketing agency.
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Travis Brown: That’s just built a bunch of diverse and talented marketers who just geek out on building and advertising brands. And we work from small business. Uh, mid level and we also have enterprise clients that we’re helping either refresh their brand or run a really cool campaign or in many cases just do an individual service like video production that really just helps tell their story.
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Travis Brown: So we’re super excited to be in the marketplace and just, um, you know, trying to make a difference.
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Craig: Awesome. Well, great. And as we dive into this, I know you work so hard in developing your teammates too, so I’m interested to see how that plays in both with your external and internal [00:02:00] stakeholders as we dive in.
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Craig: But we always start, Travis, with the lightning round. So are you ready to jump in? Hey, let’s go. All right. Question number one. Who is your leadership crush?
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Travis Brown: Oh, my, my leadership crush. I love seeing, um, what Gary Vee is doing. And so definitely got to be a Gary Vee.
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Craig: Gary V. Perfect. Yeah, he is fascinating and talk about content.
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Craig: He really puts out some great stuff. So all right, Gary V. Question number two. What is the greatest book you have ever read on leadership
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Travis Brown: becoming a person of influence? John Maxwell changed the game for me. Talks talking about character development and really challenged me in an area that I had weaknesses.
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Travis Brown: So becoming a person of influence. I
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Craig: love it. Okay. And question number three, in 10 words or less, how would you define leadership?
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Travis Brown: Leadership is influencing people to make a [00:03:00] positive difference.
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Craig: Love it. Love it. And when you think about how that works in your organization, how do you get that built into your team every day?
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Travis Brown: Well, I think there’s a cliche when people think about mission, vision and values, because most organizations, when they created them, they got stuck in the back of some book someplace, but they never really lived them. I think for organizations that are committed to living them every single day, what you ultimately do is have a unified group of people that understand where you’re trying to go, what you’re trying to do and what their role is.
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Travis Brown: And when you do that, well, Everybody has a level of influence to each other and to our clients as well.
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Craig: And where do you see that as, as you build that in bringing employees into the organization, how does that kind of fill in and make a difference for, you know, maybe a new employee coming into Mojo up?
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Craig: How do they feel that? Yeah.
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Travis Brown: We recently just hired a chief [00:04:00] growth officer, a new, um, a VP of creative. And so, very high level positions that we expect a lot out of. Uh, and here’s the thing, their skill level to do the job is not even in question. The only question is, are they a good fit for us? And that was the process that we had to go through to understand that we say people first in our organization.
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Travis Brown: That that means that we’re not just person first, but that we’re about the individual people that make a difference and impact on all of our people. When we say growth mindset of learn, teach and grow, like the commitment to what that ultimately is. Or if we say be accountable and we understand that here’s what that means.
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Travis Brown: Like I have spent a lot of time personally. Just trying to understand, do they fit that culture or are they going to buy into those core values and like things like when we say our mission, you know, I mojo up our mission is really about through our excellence. We’re trying to pave the way for other black and brown executives, business owners, entrepreneurs to become successful.[00:05:00]
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Travis Brown: Well, that’s not for everybody. Not everybody wants to be a part of the focus of that. Or we start talking about our vision to be the go to diverse. marketing agency in Indiana, like you, there’s standards that come along with that, but those are woven into everything that we do on a daily basis and you can’t get away from them.
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Travis Brown: And even when we think about challenges that we have, you know, I’m always bringing back to our team, like, well, is this, uh, did this help us become that go to diverse and talented agency? Or did this prevent us from being that, like when you start taking core values. your vision and your mission. When you put those things together and you operate day in day out, it’s a challenge for not only me as a leader.
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Travis Brown: But every individual person to go, that’s what we’re trying to live up
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Craig: to. And, and what I think is so interesting about that, and I’ve worked with clients on this, when you get really clear on that, the team now can really start making decisions in a very different way, because if the how and the mission and the vision, it starts defining, all right, well, I can’t find Travis to [00:06:00] ask a question, but this is how we do things so I can just go.
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Craig: And it makes you a much more nimble organization when the values are clear and the mission is clear.
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Travis Brown: And I think when you break down, like, for example, in be accountable for us, one of ours is we’re biased towards action and that just means I everybody knows I would rather you have to come to me and say, I had an idea.
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Travis Brown: I ran with it and I completely screwed it up. I would much rather that be the conversation then. Hey, I’ve been sitting on this. I’ve been thinking about it, trying to figure it out and do nothing for two weeks. That’s just not how we how how we operate. And so once people understand that you give him those guardrails.
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Travis Brown: Now you give them the ability to go do what they need to do and the level that they are already capable of doing
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Craig: that. Yeah. And I, I can’t help, but notice the Nike’s there in the background. And I just watched air last night and those 10 rules of Nike. And it’s very similar to what you’re talking about, but beyond offense, make the mistake and figure out what you need to do.
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Craig: It’s great. So, [00:07:00] okay. So Travis, what we like to do here is, is really talk about the guest leadership journey. So you’ve got a lot of thoughts and you’ve got a really well thought out view of leadership, but let’s go back. What was your first real leadership role? I grew up as an
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Travis Brown: athlete and if I go back to even my high school athletic journey, and in many cases, you think about leading on the field.
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Travis Brown: Now, when I look at it, I think about how much I was leading. off of the field conversations that you’re a part of the challenges, the tough topics, and I’m talking, you know, I’m old guy. So 25 years ago, I think being an athlete and performing at a high level going to college to play sports like you were always thrust in leadership opportunities that you probably didn’t even understand at that time.
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Travis Brown: And so I think that that really started to equip me for being in the limelight, having to make Yes, it was. Tough decisions on the spot and being scrutinized by all the decisions that you actually do make. If that’s not leadership, you know, in today’s environment, I don’t know what it is. So I [00:08:00] think it’s definitely from a sports
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Craig: perspective.
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Craig: Yeah. So when, and when you think about some of those things, even if it wasn’t conscious for you, when you talk about the leader being in the limelight and scrutinized, what do you take away from that as far as how a leader behaves?
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Travis Brown: Well, I heard Tony Robbins say this. Um, I thought it was a great quote.
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Travis Brown: I’m paraphrasing for sure. But he basically said is act like you’re already the famous person that everybody knows and watches and scrutinizes before you are so that when you become that, you don’t have to change who you are. And that was so powerful to me because it was like, Hey, if I start now at a younger age, when people aren’t really watching what I’m doing and people don’t really care, but I do it at a level with the same level of integrity and transparency that where I am now, when everybody is watching, it’s not a change.
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Travis Brown: Like, uh, my family and I were playing, um, this, this game of do, how well do you know your family? It’s my, my little kids and my, even my big one, my mom last night, my wife last night. And the question card I got was, what’s one of the greatest compliments that you’ve [00:09:00] ever received? And for me, it was that you’re so authentic.
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Travis Brown: And that’s important to me because I want people to understand, like Travis in here on this podcast at home at church with my buddies, like I am who you get always. That doesn’t mean I say everything I think, and I’m not, I’m not saying that, but, but like the authenticity by which you operate is so important.
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Travis Brown: And I think there’s too many leaders out there that are afraid to be their authentic self. So they’ve been trying to pretend who they are. They are not. And that’s a tough game to survive in because at some point in time, you know, it leaks out and then people have a disconnect between who you’ve positioned yourself to be.
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Travis Brown: And who you really
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Craig: are. I think about it as you say that, I think about Elizabeth Holmes, I think with Theranos, who had that whole cultivated Steve jobs persona she created. And then you see her kind of in court and everything else. And all of a sudden there’s this whole different person. I’m not sure which, if either of those are the real person, [00:10:00] but I think about that as the level of leadership is hard.
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Craig: And to create a false persona over the top of yourself on top of everything else has got to be. The most exhausting way to lead.
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Travis Brown: Well, I think what you’re seeing Craig in today, you’re starting to see this exposed, but traditionally with hierarchy and leadership, it’s prevented people from being able to be their self and the way that leaders at the top have had this top down.
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Travis Brown: pecking order. You only are, um, you only speak when you’re, when you’re spoken to. And if you say things are out of order, people slap your hand that suppressed people’s ability to really be their authentic self. You know, I think we’re in an environment where now it’s starting to change a little bit, especially for me as an African American male.
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Travis Brown: to be in rooms that you feel like you can be your authentic self. You don’t have to code switch a language barrier. You know, you don’t have to not say things. You don’t have to dress the way that you [00:11:00] want to dress. And I think as a culture, we’re getting to a point where we’re accepting people and their individuality, which is allowing them to then bring expression and more opportunity, more creative to that table and make it more powerful, in my
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Craig: opinion.
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Craig: No, I think you’re right. I think we, we historically, you know, you say you’re an old guy, I’m an old guy too. And I go back to, you know, it was always very deferential, never questioned the boss. You would leave the room and go, what are they thinking? Right. And you know, you’d have the meetings after the meetings.
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Craig: And a lot of mistakes get made that way, but where we can have, you know, leadership is a responsibility. It’s not an entitlement. And I think that seems to be where we’ve switched culturally to say, Hey, look, just because I have the title doesn’t mean I’m omniscient. It doesn’t mean I’m always right. It does mean I’m responsible for casting a vision.
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Craig: But if I surround myself with a whole bunch of people who aren’t real with me, I’m not going to win over the long haul.
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Travis Brown: Historically that, that right there [00:12:00] was. Also not allowing leaders and leadership position to be transparent with, Hey, I don’t have all the answers. Hey, I’m not perfect. Hey, I made this mistake.
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Travis Brown: It used to be like you couldn’t admit that you made a mistake because then you were less of a leader. And now you can feel like, Hey, I can, I can be transparent. In fact, one of my, one of my most, I think, powerful leadership tools is being transparent with my failures with my team. And even my clients with some people are like, no, how can you do that?
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Travis Brown: But I’ll sit in front of a client and be like, you know what, we did this. We went down this road and I thought this was the right approach and it just wasn’t. And I made this mistake and we had to learn from this. But this is why we’re recommending that you do it differently now, simply because like we can feel confident to say, I failed, I made a mistake, I made a decision that didn’t work out, but I don’t think you could always do that in the corporate arena where I think today now you can do better.
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Travis Brown: You can do, you can be way more authentic in
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Craig: that. Oh yeah. So [00:13:00] if you think about yourself in those early leadership roles as an athlete and you know where you were and weren’t super conscious of that role, what do you, what were your big takeaways from those early leadership opportunities as far as what you think about leadership?
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Travis Brown: Well, I’m gonna jump one step further, Craig, because it was athleticism, but in my first role, I was a VP at a, at a big mortgage company at 30 employees at the time. And, um, what I didn’t also understand was how to, how to use the best deposit things from sports into the, into the corporate culture. So the level intensity that I operated from and assuming that everybody wanted to win at my level with, without any, it just was, it was, it was bad.
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Travis Brown: You know, I look back at some of those days and I’m like, gosh, you know, I was so overbearing in your face, my way, the only way, you know, uh, just brutal because that’s how I was coached. That was the sports mentality. I had to figure out, [00:14:00] okay, hold on. There are important things you do need to pull from sports and that team, that team camaraderie, that togetherness, the spirit of, Hey, I can trust you.
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Travis Brown: I can count on you. I can challenge you. But you also have to get into a corporate arena and understand not everybody has experienced that at that intensity level. And I didn’t understand how to have different levels of intensity. And so it was like, Hey, you’re going to be a fiery, go get it. You know, uh, going after as hard as you possibly can or you can’t work here.
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Travis Brown: That was some of the things that I just didn’t even realize that I was doing. As we were turning over people because I was immature as a leader to understand people are different and there’s value in having people that are more laid back. that are easier going, that are more methodical, that are detail oriented.
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Travis Brown: I just wanted a bunch of chargers that were going to run through walls and didn’t understand the difference. And I think my sports background allowed me to have intensity to go to fight and understand what failure looked like and then [00:15:00] battle back to win. But it also hurt me early in my management days 20s when I just didn’t understand how to really, how to really lead people.
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Travis Brown: I
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Craig: agree. And I, I do a lot of work with leadership teams. And one of the things you start to see is maybe you’ve got three people who are that kind of aggressive, let’s get it done mentality. And then you maybe have more thoughtful people or more idea based people and they look at each other as almost.
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Craig: enemies holding each other back. But if you start to look, when you start to look holistically and say not everybody’s like me, and that actually is good because sometimes my go get it attitude could use a little thought or, or bring some people along for the ride instead of dragging them with me. And that starts to build an effective team because now we’re looking at each other’s strengths as appeals to each other’s weaknesses.
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Travis Brown: I think for people that are up, so on a disc, I’m a, I’m a high B. So once you understand that, you know, you got some life work to polish yourself up so that you don’t offend everybody you ever deal with. [00:16:00] And so it took some time for me to really work through that, but also didn’t understand things like my strength finders to understand how strategic I am, but looking at some of my team members that like strategic is like 34 on a list and then understand how do we come together?
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Travis Brown: Because as They have things that I don’t, and I have things that they don’t in valuing that. I’ll be honest, like, I just, it took me a long time to value that difference in the way leaders operate. And even from a, you know, I remember used to teach personality stuff, and I remember used to putting Tony Dungy on a PowerPoint slide as a, like an S or a C on the disc profile.
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Travis Brown: But, but I came from a John Gruden, like in your face, like fiery, throw your headset and just be, you know, passionate. And it took me a long time to just have respect for somebody who didn’t operate that way. It just, it just was hard for me to gather. And today it’s like, you know, part of it’s age, you know, part of it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s maturity.
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Travis Brown: But [00:17:00] getting to a point where you’re like, nah, like you, you can be really effective in so many different ways of leadership.
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Craig: Okay, and there is no basis in real understanding, but my first thought as you bring those examples up is how different leaders at different points in time can have different impacts.
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Craig: So if you think about it, Tony Dungy was at the box, brought him to a really high level, but couldn’t get him across the finish line there. Gruden comes in with his guys in a different attitude. Boom. First time Superbowl for my team, the Tampa Bay Bucs. Now you have Dungy come here to the Colts. Sorry, everybody.
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Craig: We’re in Indianapolis. I come to the Colts where his leadership style is exactly what they needed to go across that line. So it’s so interesting that leaders. different kinds of leaders can have a different impact on an organization depending on where they’re at and where the team needs them.
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Travis Brown: A hundred percent.
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Travis Brown: And I think it’s just understanding for me, the lesson in that was clearly your question is understanding the value of different leadership styles and the parts that you need [00:18:00] to build an effective team.
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Craig: Yeah, a hundred percent. So now let’s fast forward to today, CEO of Mojo Up. What, how would you describe your leadership style?
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Craig: And you’ve, you’ve given a lot of insights into that already, but how would you describe your leadership style today?
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Travis Brown: We should see how I describe it versus how they describe it. But now I feel like, and I’m going to say, I feel soft. Now, honestly, I’m just still dealing with. The fieriness of, you know, in that, like, let’s go, you know, a hundred miles an hour and I say soft because that’s just the best verbiage that I can have, but I’m also way more, um, reliant on other people’s skills than I ever have been.
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Travis Brown: You know, when you realize that, so I have a marketing agency and I still own a lot of the strategy for companies. Listen, I don’t, I don’t design anything. I don’t shoot any video. I don’t build any websites. I don’t post any social media stuff. And once you realize that you can’t be [00:19:00] great at scale without other great people, then you start thinking about, well, how do I build people?
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Travis Brown: How do I help them grow and develop? It’s no longer about how good Travis Brown can be. It’s about how good can we be? And I think that’s a mindset shift that takes some time for people to recognize that you can be great, but you’re going to be limited. Like, how can you put people around you that in their era, or in their arena, I should say, in their, their vertical, their skill set, they are better than you could ever be.
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Travis Brown: And I think once you come to that point of realization, you’re like, man, that’s what building a team is like. Then you start figuring out, okay, how do I give them vision? How do I give them resources? And then how do I coach them up to be as good as they possibly can be? So that’s really what my role now is, is like, how do I coach people?
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Travis Brown: How do I look at their gaps, our gaps as a company and how I really help us grow there.
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Craig: Yeah. So there’s [00:20:00] almost, and you may or may not agree with this word to describe it, but. Almost a humility that’s come into your leadership style to say, it’s not all me anymore. Right? It’s not all be everybody like me anymore.
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Craig: It’s I can’t do it all. I have to get people around me and I have to grow them. Is, is humility the right word or would you use a different word for
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Travis Brown: that? Well, I definitely think humility is a major component of it. And, um, you know, I don’t know that I’d use that word to describe my overall leadership, but I would say I’m not the leader that I am today without humility.
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Travis Brown: Um, to the fact that, listen, and this is me cause I’m spiritual, but God gave me, uh, some certain talents. And what I’ve really learned is these are my talents and I’m really good at these, but I’m really bad and really average at these. And when I started to go, well, let’s put those type of people that are, that are God given talent and skill developed in those areas, we’re going to be so much better.
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Travis Brown: [00:21:00] That’s a humility, Craig, when you’re willing to say. Here’s what I’m great at and stop trying to be great at the things that you’re just not great at. That was the biggest shift for me, probably in my leadership since we started this
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Craig: company. And as you’ve gone through that and you look at the team around you through this development you’ve done, as you’re developing new leaders in your organization, how does that translate?
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Craig: How do you help them see some of the lessons you’ve learned in yourself?
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Travis Brown: We partner with an organization here called True You. They do some culture building stuff and they have some leadership development things that we’ve done. And as we put some of my young leaders through some leadership development, what would allow me to do is to sit literally in these two chairs and say, talk to me about your journey.
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Travis Brown: Where are you? What are you struggling with? What are your challenges? And then through my experiences, talk about here’s how I messed it up. Literally. Most time it’s not like well, here’s how I’ve done great amazing. It’s like no. No, here’s how I messed that up Here’s what I had to learn from that and now here’s why you’re [00:22:00] seeing me do it differently Yeah, I think taking people on that journey Failure to quote unquote, you know, success, uh, or successes.
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Travis Brown: It’s been the way to sit and just say, man, I see that journey. I think the other thing is that I’ve been blessed with some, the ability to see back at my experience. I mean, they say 20 hindsight, it’s 2020, but not everybody still sees it. Right. Some people still can’t see 2020 even when they’re looking back at it.
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Travis Brown: But I’ve been able to go back and look at those mistakes and look at those failures. Number one, own them. And then number two, go either, this was God trying to do it to me, my philosophy, or he was trying to do something amazing through me. And so now I’m trying to take each one of those things and go, how can I help this young leader?
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Travis Brown: Or maybe this, this older leader who’s trying to figure out how to lead younger people. Like how do we take all that together? Take what you’ve learned. And then make up the greatest impact. And
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Craig: you have perfectly, Travis, teed up my final question for you today. You could, I could not have [00:23:00] paid you for a better lead in.
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Craig: If you could go back in time, I’m a big sci fi geek, so pick your travel machine. You can take Bill and Tez, anyone you want to do. Go back in time to that young Travis, those very early, either as an athlete or very early in your career, you talked about those VP roles. What’s the one piece of advice you would go back and give him that would have made his way easier?
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Craig: Well, Craig,
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Travis Brown: first of all, I think that is a phenomenal question. Um, as the reason why I’ve done a lot of things that I do and the investment that I have in youth for years is because I always said, you know, I wanted to help a young Travis Brown make different and better decisions. Um, I would probably go back and say, Um, character is more important than you will ever understand.
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Travis Brown: And, and, and that comes from a place for me of having what I call cracks in the character. And that’s why the book, Becoming a Person of Influence, was so important, because John Maxwell really hammers home, like, [00:24:00] without that character, you know, without that highest level of integrity, Like you can’t operate successfully long term and I think my mindset growing up was number one.
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Travis Brown: I came from poverty. Um, I came from, um, some challenging situations that I was always back against the wall fighting to prove, right? And so it became a prove win at all costs. You know, and that’s just that’s a that’s a hard place to live from then created some some character issues in my opinion But I had to just work really hard to fix over the course of the next 20 years I would tell Travis Brown like hey get your character right be honest all the time to yourself first Like and what you can do what you want to do really who you are And then always be honest to others in everything that you do, because people are going to question you, they’re going to challenge you.
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Travis Brown: And it feels really great as a human being to [00:25:00] say, listen, I feel really good about my intentions for people. And, and everything else begins to, to become easier after that.
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Craig: And through that flows, the authenticity we talked about, right? When you’re authentic and you are who you are, everything so much flows through character and integrity and in leadership.
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Craig: So Travis, this was fantastic. Thank you so much for sharing your leadership journey. If people want to find you and follow you, where are the best places for them to do that? Well, all of
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Travis Brown: our company stuff is at mojoup. com. Um, all of my social media, which I produce a lot of content, um, whether it’s on LinkedIn or TikTok or Instagram is all Travis Jaden Brown.
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Travis Brown: Um, you can follow me there, put out some really cool content stuff and, uh, even talk about my Jordans, my shoes, my favorites, you know, and, and how those are purposeful as well. So, Craig, thanks for having me on the show, man. It’s been great. Absolutely.
[00:25:52] Thank
[00:25:52]
Craig: you, Travis. I appreciate it. Take care. I really appreciated this week’s interview with Travis.
[00:25:58]
Craig: Just the thoughtfulness [00:26:00] he has put into who he is as a leader, how that translates into his team, I think brings a lot of value to all new leaders who listen to this as they develop and grow into their leadership role. As always, I like to break down the guest’s interview into three areas of leadership competency, the areas of confidence, competence, and calm.
[00:26:20]
Craig: Where I think Travis helped us to really understand confidence is when he talked about being strong enough to admit failure, not just to your employees and yourself, but even to clients to leverage those failure opportunities as an opportunity to say, this is where we’ve made mistakes. This is what we have learned from them, not hiding from those mistakes.
[00:26:39]
Craig: So that takes a lot of confidence to be able to step up to that in the area of competence. I loved our discussion around diversity of different people around the table, whose strengths complement your weaknesses, who can do the things that perhaps you’re not the best at doing. That really is a great opportunity for you to [00:27:00] build a great team around you that will help you succeed.
[00:27:03]
Craig: And then finally, in the area of calm. Travis talked a lot about how much he spent in an effort to get to know himself, looking back at his own beginnings, how that influenced him, and how he needed to change. And getting that peacefulness with himself by knowing himself has made him a more effective leader.
[00:27:19]
Craig: If you would like to get to know more about yourself, I do have an assessment that’s free for you to take. You can jump onto it at clearpathcoaches.com/cvi. And that assessment will allow you to start to learn more about yourself and who you are as a person and as a leader. So I’d encourage you to jump out and take that.
[00:27:37]
Craig: Thanks for joining this week’s episode of Executive Evolution. Thanks everybody.