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The Importance of Influence with Santiago Jaramillo

Leaders experience challenges you can never truly understand until you’ve sat in that chair yourself. It’s what makes the role so difficult; at the same time, it can unleash your resourcefulness to influence others and do everything you can to enable your business to thrive.

In this episode, Santiago Jaramillo, three-time exited CEO turned Executive Coach, talks about how he’s overcome the challenges of leadership, especially in times when he was unsure of how he was going to deliver on his promises to stakeholders.

Listen in to understand you aren’t alone in your struggles and doubts as a leader, and why it’s okay for you not to have the skills of a one-person team

After You Listen:

Key Takeaways:

  • It’s more important to be able to influence competent people to work together than to be highly skilled in many fields
  • Focus all your efforts on the things you can control and what you can add value to; learn to let go of the things that you can’t control
  • Be authentic. Staying true to yourself—not becoming someone you think others might need you to be—will allow you to be the best leader you can be

Things to listen for:

  • [2:27] Lightning round with Santiago
  • [6:29] Leading and influencing different people towards a singular vision
  • [12:47] Following through on your visions
  • [19:04] Why leaders need coaches
  • [23:09] Santiago‘s advice for his younger self
  • [26:50] Craig’s takeaways

Santi’s Transcript:

[00:00:00] Craig: So I finally had the opportunity to sit in the big chair. I was head of the business surrounded by people. And never did. I feel more lonely and isolated than I did at that time.

[00:00:11] Craig P: Welcome to Executive Evolution. I’m Craig Anderson. After spending 25 plus years in corporate America, I learned a lot of leadership lessons the hard way. I created this podcast so you don’t have to.

[00:00:32] Craig: One of the things that really surprised me as I stepped up into leadership roles is how. You had fewer and fewer people to connect with. You’re surrounded by people all the time. You have your team, you have your peers, there’s lots of people to talk about the day with and commiserate with and bounce ideas off of.

But as you move up, There are fewer and fewer opportunities for you to do that. And it could become a real struggle for leaders who are growing in their career until they get to that CEO role or president role, and they realize that they’ve gotta hang on to all of it themselves. That they have all these teammates around them.

They have direct reports, they have their large teams, but they’re also incredibly isolated because they can’t always talk about. Everything that comes into their mind, because everyone is looking to them to set the tone. And so that is such a struggle, and I’m so excited today to have another former CEO turned executive coach like myself, where we talk about his leadership journey and we talk about how a coach helped him to start to see more clearly and to become that person who is helpful just to him.

So my guest today is Santiago Jaramillo is a three time exited, CEO turned executive, c e o Coach. He is the president of Grow With Santi And he is here to share his executive evolution.

So we will jump in right out of the gate with a lightning round. Are you ready to jump in? All right. Question number one. What is the best leadership book you have ever read?

[00:02:29] Santiago: Ever read it would be Reboot and Leadership in the Art of Growing Up by Jerry Colonna.

[00:02:34] Craig: Okay. What popped out of that book for you that you were able to leverage?

[00:02:38] Santiago: You know, he defined the marks of a leader as having a strong back and an open heart.

And I think that those sort of two polarities, if you will, or those two things at tension really perfectly sum up. The beauty, the magic, the challenge, the difficulty of leadership, which is having a sense of fiscal responsibility of protecting the mission and the sustainability of the mission.

Making the hard decisions of protecting the core values and the culture when someone has been, you know, given clear expectations and clear feedback that they are not living them and making that tough call to, you know, move away. or doing that layoff when, 40% of our customers, of your customers overnight tell you they’re not paying you and you’re gonna go out of business if you don’t reduce costs.

Right? those are the, the strong backbone moments that it takes to, to steward. A, mission sustainably. And also the open heart of looking at ourselves in the mirror and realizing where do our, where do our journeys and emotional experiences in childhood and hangups and sort of psychological wounds and defense mechanisms are showing up and, causing damage to other people in ways that we’re not even aware of?

Or how do we also deeply care about. The people as much as we care about the results of the business and how do we create safe places for people to show up? And how do you balance mission and people? Right? And this is sort of the, fundamental challenge, like in the Army. It’s like, you know, when you have a soldier down in the battlefield, but going back for that soldier means that you.

Fail the mission and put national security at risk. Like what do you do? And, and you have to sometimes make those heartbreaking decisions between sort of in, in different, to emphasize one or the other. And, and a leader just emphasizes both. And I find that all of us have one of those which comes naturally in which comes dominant for us.

Like we are sort of born with a strong back. And, and our growth path is to be more vulnerable and open our heart and get in touch with our emotions, or it’s the opposite. We. Really care deeply about people and connect, but it is really hard for us to hold them accountable or to have difficult conversations or to lean into conflict when it’s scary.

And that’s what really stood out for me.

[00:04:43] Craig: I love that idea of that duality because you’re right, and, and until you’re actually in those big roles where you’re making those decisions, It’s hard to even imagine. You think, well, how hard is it? You make some decisions and you’re nice to people, but it’s so much more than that if you haven’t sat in the chair.

Great. All right. Next question. Who is your leadership crush?

[00:05:04] Santiago: Yvonne Sard, the founder of Patagonia is an inspiration. He wrote one of my favorite leadership books up there as well, which is Let My People People Go Surfing. And it was about his journey of founding Patagonia and the very different way that, that he did it. He was this sort of hippie, outdoor kind of climber person.

And he Make himself wear a tie in the boardroom suit to get more credibility when thus he was just who he was and, you know, would go out surfing and people were like, you should be running Patagonia. But he, he was just being himself and living his life and also building a company versus becoming whoever he needed to be to be the best CEO of Patagonia, if that makes sense.

And so I find that You know, when somebody is courageous about their authenticity at even sometimes at, at a perceived cost to their business success, I find inspiring.

[00:05:51] Craig: Yeah. And that, that was the word that was coming to mind to me as you were describing that as authenticity, just throughout that career arc and or career trajectory of building that business into what it was or what it is, and even through the way when they went through kind of. The sale of the business on the back end, still staying true to those principles and, and there is a reward.

I was saying this to someone earlier, is that authenticity, if you know who you are as a leader and you can stand behind that, it’s hard enough being a leader to have to put a false face on the whole time too, just seems exhausting. all right, last question in the lightning round. What, in 10 words or less is your definition of leadership?

[00:06:31] Santiago: Inspiring influence in others to lead diverse people toward a common goal.

[00:06:38] Craig: we have this such a different group of people around us, but we’ve gotta get everybody rolling in the same direction. Right. How do you find that common value for a team?

[00:06:47] Santiago: For sure these people, everyone’s so different, different personalities, different stories, and, and somehow as a leader, your task is to get all of these people to grow in the same direction and care about, you know, the goal and to play by the same rules, the same core values, and sort of agree to the same behavioral standards and that, and inherent in that.

It means that people will be sort of, Sacrificing some of, temporarily, some of their own needs and preferences of ways, you know, of doing things. And it, it means that how you show up are gaining and inspiring enough influence to have enough influence to ask them to put some of those preferences and needs, you know, and then, commit to this, you know, shared goal and, and invest some of their scarce life energy and time into the pursuit, you know, of a goal with other people.

[00:07:31] Craig: It’s really easy when there’s maybe two of you, then you get to 50 and it’s so much harder to try and find that common thread that you can just keep everybody together. And I’m sure you had. Different times over your career where it just feels like everyone’s kind of pulling apart and it’s like, what?

What’s the thing I can grab to try and get everybody back focused? And it’s hard.

[00:07:52] Santiago: And how do you support individual expression and people showing up as their authentic selves and at the same time have a cohesive enough work environment so that how to work with each other and how to treat each other is also, cleared and shared

[00:08:04] Craig: And you’re systemically kind of aligned and have similar incentives and, and all of that.

[00:08:08] Santiago: Yeah, it’s, it’s, It’s a complex challenge.

[00:08:10] Craig: But after that it’s really easy. It’s more just, you know, you just do it for the money and the fame, So let’s go back. So you have such an interesting trajectory in your career, kind of starting right outta college, launching your first business. But what was your first real leadership role that you can think back to?

[00:08:26] Santiago: Yeah. You know, if I think about it kind of more literally it’d probably be Blue Bridge. The first startup that I, that I launched that’s not even true. The first startup that I launched where I called myself CEO and we had W2 employees, but, you know, that was probably my 13th or 14th business, you know, that I had started.

My, my first one was, Selling avocados and selling water to my community in, in Columbia. And so, if the definition, my definition is influence is gaining influence, not positional authority, not where I am their authority by the title that I have. But, you know, I had influence in my local community.

I had influence with the Coca-Cola truck that provided the water. I had influence with my, my neighbors who wanted a. Trust me to buy water from me instead of the front gate. I had the front gate security guards influence and, you know, to, to offload his side business to me. And, you know, I was able to kind of create a exclusive distribution agreement with the CocaCola truck to only sell water to me.

And then I would only be the only one to per distribute the water to my neighbors, you know, the five gallon jugs of, of water that people used to cook in my neighborhood. So, you know, if I take that definition, you know, influence or maybe even before that in school, you know, and. Leading a group project or something

[00:09:34] Craig: like that. But probably more formally would be at, you know, at Blue Bridge where I had, you know, direct reports Well, I think in the thread, especially in some of those early ones, right, is, is, as you said, it’s that influence into people. So how did that work for you? How did, what did you draw from to kind of say, oh, this is how I do that, this is how I lead and influence what, what was the inspiration?

[00:09:55] Santiago: I think a part of that was that having a vision for the world, not as it is, but as it could be, and then painting that vision in a way that people understood how that vision coming about would make their lives better. And so they wanted to be a part of that vision. They’re like, oh, this guy sees a better way, and I think he can make it happen.

And if that happened, my life would be better. And so I think there’s a, a storytelling sort of, you know, there’s a create creative art of envisioning a future that, that doesn’t exist yet. But, you know, if all you do is have visions but you don’t, can’t execute on it, you’re, that’s sort of, you’re like a charlatan and delusional, you know, you just have, and maybe that’s too negative of a but, but you gotta actually have the follow through to then for people to actually believe that you can actually make it happen.

And then you actually got to You know, assemble the team and the, and the profit model and the suppliers and the customers to actually, you know, make it happen. So I think it was a combination of, you know, art of, of creating something from nothing, of having a vision for the world of understanding people and how to communicate that in a way that would be compelling to them.

And then, and then having the executive functions, the follow through the execution skills to actually make it happen.

[00:11:08] Craig: And, and when you think about that, that kind of transition, cuz the vision part is important, but then when you’re good at it, now you have to deliver. So how did that kind of learning curve go from you to say, all right, I’ve convinced these people that I can do this for them or with them now, now I’ve gotta actually get the execution piece.

How did that leadership pivot work for you?

[00:11:30] Santiago: You know, there’s some amount of like, the pressure of just committing to a thing that I didn’t know how I was going to deliver. Pulls a level of resourcefulness, you know, like what is that? Like the. Necessity is the mother of invention kind of a

thing. Like, and I remember when I first, when I sold my first mobile app, it was a my custom mobile app project to Kokomo, Indiana, and they were like, I spent months, persuading them to choose me to make their iOS and Android app for

the superb bowl. When it came to India in 2012. And so I spent most of 2011 trying to sell them that I could deliver this app. And finally they chose me. They slammed the contract and then I was like, I don’t know how to code like an app. Like, and I don’t know anybody who can code an app.

Like, you know, so it’s like now the real work began, right? And

so I had a vision for like, it’d be great if you had an app, but then I had to actually deliver on it. And so, you know, I found a combination of College students and offshore, developers and tried a bunch of things and just kind of figured it out.

You know, there’s a figure, it outness and a resourcefulness that, you know, I think I, I also had to learn that balance the effusive vision,

Yeah. And you know, when you think about that learning experience for you as a leader, what did that start to teach you of how to do things in the future? How to do things differently?

Not only are we capable of great resource, resourcefulness and inventiveness when we really need to, you know, in this situation, promise something to a bunch of stakeholders that I would sort of be entrepreneurially the leading, but also other people are capable of tremendous goals too.

The amount of times where we all looked at each other at Uber and amplify and we’re like, we don’t know how we’re gonna. Grow revenue a hundred percent year over year. But like, I think it’s possible and we’re going to just put it as a goal and then we’re gonna like put our best minds and hearts into it to figure it out.

And the amount of times that we did that and it worked out and we were like, we didn’t need to know what was possible. there is an amount of calling People toward really exciting kind of moonshots, you know, kind of like the sort of j f K, kind of like we will be on the moon in 10 years and it’s like 80% of the technology like does not exist yet.

Like it has to be created. But just simply a leader’s like statement and, and will of like, we will be here and we will get here is, can be, you know, a really kind of powerful thing.

[00:13:48] Craig: And in some ways what I hear you saying is it’s taking that same vision creation you had over here to sell the idea. really selling your internal stakeholders in a vision that we can actually do this

[00:13:59] Santiago: it is amazing when you, right, exactly what you said, rally internals stakeholders to deeply under get a shared understanding of what the vision is and what role they can play in and why it’s a vision worth pursuing and investing their heart and mind and figuring out how to make it a reality.

Then you kind of create a mini vision for, you know, each person is kind of creating a mini, almost like a rushing nesting do kind of vision for what their role is, in making it happen. And, it is a different orientation, visionary and execution. There are sort of there’s not many times where.

The same person as world class at being the visionary person and world class at being the execution person because it, execution have to be very disciplined and say no to lots of distractions and ideas. And the visionaries just always looking for the next thing and the new shiny object and the new innovation growth area.

And the, the disciplined operator is just staying really focused and saying no to lots of things so that they can achieve. The main, success criteria of the project. And so it is a lot of the same of growling other people to it. But it’s also new skills. I definitely feel like I, the visionary side came naturally and the managing the execution was a set of skills that Intentionally developed over the years and worked on. And, and that came less naturally to me. And it was a lot of skills about how to define success in the project. Not to tell people how to do it, but get really clear on what success looks like. it, was things of like helping connect them to meaning.

Like what, what was their, what was everyone’s why? In this, you know, in this project it was helping facilitate communication and making sure that people are communicating well with each other and surfacing blockers and concerns and navigating through conflict. Instead of ignoring it, it’s being really clear on breaking it down into a big problem, into smaller chunks.

And it’s assumption thinking like what are the biggest assumptions we’re making in risk mitigation? What are the biggest risks in this project? How could it go wrong? And how do we intentionally build a plan that builds for the weaknesses and for the risks? You know, from the beginning.

It’s, those kind of skills that those were definitely part of the learning journey. So, you know, for me it was a, I think part of what the advice I would’ve given myself would’ve been to Been really clear that while I can be the execution lead, that I would’ve been better served by surrounding myself with more people, and maybe it’s less about more people, but relied on them more and empowered them to take more of a leadership role in managing execution so that I could stay more in my zone of genius versus kind of overextending myself into. Being a, a good coo, if you would, but the, the amount of energy that it took me to be a good COO could have been maybe spent being a much better c o, which came a lot more naturally to me, kind of CEO and coo kind of delineating between sort of more visionary and coo more sort of integration execution oriented.

[00:16:57] Craig: and how did that evolve for you over time as you were kind of at the tail end of that aspect of your journey. How had you changed and evolved into that leader?

[00:17:07] Santiago: Adam Weber, my co-founder and Chief People Officer, and Kurt Phillips, our chief Financial Officer, were, were really kind of sharing the role of, of COO and really kind of

managing the, a lot of the day-to-day operations of Amplify. And I was able to focus on sort of the, not managing, not.

Keeping the trains running on time for the strategy for the next 90 days, but coming up with the strategy, facilitating it for the next, you know, six months being with customers to really understand the market and their needs. Spending proactive time investing into employees and growing them, spending time on strategic relationships like 15 five, which ended up, acquiring us.

And so I got to, to really think about Longer term problems than are we meeting our goals this week?

[00:17:56] Craig: Yeah. So it actually, that sounds like it freed you up over time as you were able to kind of release some of that day-to-day

[00:18:02] Santiago: Mm-hmm.

[00:18:03] Craig: freed you up to start looking at the future

[00:18:05] Santiago: I created executive teams so that they like, weren’t really healthy, you know, and then, you know, and then we like changed out a couple people and then I had a big mis mishi, you know, and in one of those roles.

And so it, it took a while to finally get to that place. more than just emotionally getting to a place, as you know, of just emotionally releasing it. You gotta have good. People to release it to. You gotta onboard those people. Well, you gotta have enough of those people. You gotta know how much to release and how to still have a verification control that you can still see how it’s doing, you know, if you’re not directly managing it.

Right. Some, a dashboard of metrics to tell you if you know things are, are going well or not. And so it took a while to get there, but it was so good to finally kind of get there. Yeah.

[00:18:48] Craig: Yeah. During that kind of evolutionary phase there, you know, what was your, what were your big takeaways or what was your biggest takeaway to say, boy, time, this is the thing I know I’m gonna do different.

[00:19:00] Santiago: given what I do now, may sound a little self-serving, but I wish I had gotten a coach, you know, earlier and sooner. The amount of things of me doing work that I wasn’t either doing well or was really draining me was. A lot and a lot longer than I realized. And then I started talking to a coach and this pretty quickly like reflected back like, seems like you’re doing a lot that you’re either really not enjoying or that someone else on your team might be better, much better suited, you know, to do and somebody kind of.

That you can be really honest with about, I’m really not loving a third of my job right now. Like, I actually kind of actively don’t look forward, you know, to it. And, you know,

you’re not really, that’s hard to tell board members or or even a, or even a co-founder. And so that coach provided a, safe place where I could, you know, say the things that I had kind of been feeling, but was, was too intimidated to say to other people that the stakes were a lot higher if I, you know, if I, if I didn’t receive them well, or if I didn’t communicate it, you know, clearly.

And, a lot of times you don’t know what you. Or trying to say, you just have this word soup and you know, something’s like off, but you’re just

trying to figure out what it is that’s, that’s not in alignment with, with what you have. And then the coach is able to reflect back to you. Here’s what I heard.

And then help you think through, you know, ask you a question like, is the only path forward for you to just keep doing this for the next 10 years? Or do you have other possibilities of, of ways that this work could get done well and in a way that serves the business, but also serves you and, and who you are and, and the ways that you’re naturally oriented.

Orient toward work, you know, and, and, leadership. And so you learn this lesson of like, you gotta do whatever it takes and, and what, what got you to a certain. Place isn’t what’s gonna get you there. and, and early on in the entrepreneurial journey, you’re really rewarded by just doing whatever it takes, you know, to succeed and wearing all the hats.

And then when you’re really growing and scaling a company and developing organizational competencies, that’s actually like not the best practice. Like the best practice is kind of the opposite. It’s like being really clear on who am I. What’s my zone of genius? Where do I operate best and how do I surround myself with the right people and delegate the right success criteria to them for them to really own?

And how do I, how am I really intentional about building great relationships with those people and managing their execution, helping them get on blocked? And that’s a very different skillset than doing whatever it takes and, you know, and,

[00:21:24] Craig: Yeah,

[00:21:25] Santiago: with the pain and all that stuff.

[00:21:27] Craig: that last phrase is so interesting to me cuz I had somebody say to me that one of her definitions, she wasn’t on the podcast, one of her definitions of being a good leader is you’re able to bear the pain of leadership better than most other people. you want to say no, that’s not right.

But then you think about it and you’re like, There’s a little bit of accuracy to that. the other piece I wanted to touch on, cuz you said this, but you didn’t say it explicitly, but it’s something I think about a lot. You know, you and I have both sat in that chair. It’s a really lonely chair, even though there’s 50, 60 people around you all the time and they all want your attention. you said, there’s not a whole lot of those people. You can talk about what’s inside for you

[00:22:02] Santiago: Yeah.

[00:22:03] Craig: they’re all looking to you to make them feel everything’s okay.

[00:22:06] Santiago: That feeling of like, I’m really scared about the goal and I’m not really sure we can accomplish it. Like, that’s, that’s a hard thing to wanna say. If it’s even a wise thing to say to your team,

[00:22:16] Craig: Yeah.

[00:22:16] Santiago: you know? But as a human, that’s such an understandable way to feel and to not have places and spaces where you can, say what you need to say and how you feel is hard and alienating.

[00:22:28] Craig: it’s, until you’re there, you don’t know what it’s like. And I just think it’s, and it’s fascinating and I love what you said, obviously self-serving for both of us. But you know, that coach can become, it’s the one person who doesn’t have an agenda. Everyone else around you has an agenda and it’s, it’s just a tough place to be.

So, you know, I think you touched on this a little bit about what you would tell your younger self, but after everything we’ve talked about, all those lessons learned, and you could go back to Santi just getting that first contract at Blue Bridge. What’s the one thing, if you could tell yourself, would’ve made a huge difference for you over the course of bearing that load for 10 years?

[00:23:05] Santiago: the discernment to know what’s in your control and what isn’t in your control.

And so you can think about it as like, you wanna plant the seeds of success and you wanna water the seeds of success, but then like the harvest is like not in your control.

Like you can’t force the plant to grow, you can’t force the outcome to be realized. And so it’s both, it’s not recklessness and not just being like, I hope this goal accomplishes itself. It’s not that, but it’s also not this gripping really tightly of like, I must achieve this. Exact outcome in a way. There’s just the quality of my leadership that was really holding onto the steering wheel, kind of white knuckling it. Just pretty, pretty tight. And it was a pretty kind of exhausting way to, there’s a lot of good things about it. I, there, I had a tight control on the business. I knew a lot about it.

And protected it from all these threats. Cause I was so close to it. But there was a sense that I could have. Still cared deeply, deeply, deeply about success and done, done everything I could to plant the seeds in the best soil and watered it and fertilized them. But just when it came to like the harvest, just kind of like trusting a bit more and, and letting go. that is an Enneagram eight is not the natural sort of way to be. There’s a, I want to control all the ways that I could be unsafe, you know, in the world.

And so I wanna, you know, be in control. So I think there’s a, there’s a, there’s a trust and a, and a lighter grip ness of my leadership that I would’ve told, you know, myself.

And then just more broadly, okay, what, what we touched on, which is Giving myself the permission to be more myself, to not always need to be who the organization needed me to be. And again, you know, I kind of became very involved in the day-to-day operations and I think that that.

Took away some oxygen that I could have really spent in, in a better zone of genius for me in, in higher leverage ways. If I had known myself earlier and been like, I’m not gonna be try to become a world-class execution manager. I’m just gonna know myself that I’m not gonna, that’s not really who I am, and I need to surround myself with the right people and, delegate that work.

And that doesn’t mean that I’m a bad c e o if I’m not. The type of CEO that my investors or board want me to be. it’s okay to be a visionary integrator who is amazing at recruiting people and inspiring people to, to do in fundraising and customers, but just, is not the day-today operations.

And I, and I, I really thought I needed to be, to be a good ceo, e o and I, and I spent a lot of, of time that could have been spent elsewhere. So probably those two, those two reflections.

[00:25:35] Craig: Yeah, no, I love it. It’s just kind of being honest with yourself to know where your strengths are, and then to live at your L level of best, highest contribution

[00:25:43] Santiago: the humility of being like, I have limitations and everyone does, and these are mine and other people’s competence needs to begin. Where my limitations, ends, you know, and that’s

okay. And I don’t need to be. Limitless and I don’t need to be able to do every job in my executive team at a world class level.

That’s just not realistic of a human being. to be a great CFO and a great fundraiser at the same time, and a great people person and a great evangelist and a great accountant. It’s like nobody is all of those ways of

[00:26:16] Craig: Yeah.

[00:26:16] Santiago: you know?

[00:26:17] Craig: and if they were, that would be our leadership crush.

Awesome. Well, Santi, how should people find you if they wanna follow you, learn more about what you’ve got going on, what’s the best ways for people to find you?

[00:26:26] Santiago: So my website is with, W i t h, Santi, s a n t My email is grow at with Santi if you wanna reach out directly. I occasionally tweet at Santiago j a r a, but mostly when I post digitally it’s on LinkedIn. So you can find me by sort of Santiago Harami on LinkedIn, follow me, send me a connection request.

And that’s where I’m usually posting my, leadership. takeaways and, and the things I’m learning.

[00:26:56] Craig: Perfect, and we’ll drop links to all those in the show notes. Santi, Thank you so much for sharing your executive evolution with us today. I appreciate it.

[00:27:04] Santiago: you, Craig.

[00:27:05] Craig: There are a lot of great takeaways from my conversation today with Santi. I always like to frame my takeaways into the three leadership areas of confidence, competence, and calm. Where I think Santi helped us to understand the importance of confidence in leadership, is where he talked about. His learning to surround himself with a team and letting go of the things that drain him or the things that he didn’t do particularly well, and to realize that that’s okay.

That is leadership confidence. When you realize you don’t have to do everything around the business on your own, and you can surround yourself with a trusted team of leaders. In the area of competence where Santi talked about leaning in to where he made his best, highest contribution to the business and to hand those other things off to other people.

That’s leadership. Competence is when you know where you add value and you put your focus there. And then finally, in the area of leadership calm where Santi talked about. Learning about who he was and where he could lead authentically by being his own person, not the person other people wanted to be him, to be boards other team members, but really understanding that this is who he was and this is how he was going to lead, and that’s what released him to be the best leader that he can be.

So thanks again to Santi for today’s Executive Evolution podcast. If you would like to learn more about what drives you and where your energies are to help you become more authentically who you are as a leader, I would encourage you to take the core values index that you can get to through Clear Path

And if you have any questions about the outcomes of that, give me a call. I would love to talk to you more about it. Remember that you can go from being an accidental leader to the greatest of all time leader. It just takes confidence, confidence and calm. See you next time.