“A true challenge in leadership is learning when to step back and let others find their own path from A to Z.”

In this episode of Executive Evolution, Craig Anderson talks with Adam Hayes, owner of Hayes Group Marketing, about the journey of leading and scaling a small business. Adam shares how he transitioned from a hands-on approach to a visionary role, focusing on empowering his team through trust, clear communication, and structured systems.

Drawing on over 20 years of experience, Adam emphasizes the importance of balancing guidance with autonomy, building a solid organizational framework, and using regular check-ins to maintain alignment with the company’s vision.

After You Listen:

• Connect with Adam on LinkedIn
• Check out Hayes Group Marketing 
• Connect with Craig on LinkedIn
• Subscribe to Craig’s "The Evolving Leader" newsletter

Key Takeaways:

• Define a clear vision. Make sure your team understands it so that they can align their actions with your business goals
• Encourage team ownership. Let them be part of the solution, which drives engagement and accountability
• Learn to balance empathy with tough conversations. Compassionate leadership fosters trust and better outcomes

Things to listen for:

• (00:00) Intro
• (02:01) Leadership influences and favorite books
• (06:29) First experiences in leadership and early lessons
• (09:18) Balancing guidance and independence
• (12:35) The importance of structured communication
• (17:30) Scaling a small business with a vision-driven approach
• (20:01) Goals for the future and stepping into a full-time visionary role

This has been generated by AI and optimized by a human. 

Craig Anderson [00:00:00]:

And now we have to figure out, how do I get my brain and my outputs done through other people? Welcome to Executive Evolution. I have over 25 years of leadership experience in corporate America. I learned a lot of lessons the hard way. And I created this podcast so that you won't have to. Sometimes, as leaders, we may be a bit more blunt than we have to, but other times we may be blunt because we need to be. Once we were having a meeting that we had a vendor who'd been working with us closely for months, and for some reason, he called a meeting, and I assumed it was important. He'd done a good job with things up to that point. But as I walked in, There was probably 15 of my team of 70 in the meeting.

Craig Anderson [00:00:47]:

And as he started to broach the topic, I realized what he was doing was setting himself up to make a pitch for a renewal of his agreement. And that was not the place nor the time to do that. As I said, I stood up, looked at the team, who were already somewhat exasperated, looked at him, and just said, this is not the time for this meeting. No one is prepared for it. We're not having it. Let me know if we need to schedule something like this in the future before we involve this many of my team. And that's just sometimes how it needs to be when you're in leadership. Today we're going to be talking with Adam Hayes of the Hayes Group.

Craig Anderson [00:01:23]:

He has a marketing firm that he himself has grown over the last 20 years. And we do dip into some conversations about that very leadership trait, about sometimes being blunt. And we also discuss a lot of other great things that he's been working on. So let's join right in to hear the story of Adam's Executive Evolution. Adam, welcome to the Executive Evolution podcast. I'm so glad you could join us today.

Adam Hayes [00:01:48]:

Hey, thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.

Craig Anderson [00:01:51]:

I've not had a lot of marketers on the company or people running marketing agencies, so I'm excited to get your perspective on leadership and to hear more about your story.

Adam Hayes [00:01:59]:

Awesome. Thanks. Yeah, I'm excited to talk.

Craig Anderson [00:02:01]:

All right, are you ready to jump into the lightning round?

Adam Hayes [00:02:04]:

Let's do it.

Craig Anderson [00:02:05]:

All right, first question. What is the best book on leadership you have ever read?

Adam Hayes [00:02:10]:

Probably Walter Isaacson's discovery of Apple's leader, Steve Jobs. Just profound insights about things that I admire about Steve Jobs and loathe about Steve Jobs.

Craig Anderson [00:02:24]:

What were some of the things you think made him successful based on that?

Adam Hayes [00:02:27]:

Read his ability to have a vision and stick to that vision. But not be stuck to the how it gets accomplished.

Craig Anderson [00:02:36]:

That's true. Because there's so many things that happen in the interim and we have to be able to pivot. We have to go right and left. We don't always know the way we're going to get there, but we have to be confident we're going to get there.

Adam Hayes [00:02:46]:

There's other leaders I obviously admire, but I admire him for ringing a bell and saying that is the tone that we're going for. Either you're in line with accomplishing this with us or you're not. And I don't care how you get it done. We're just going to get it done.

Craig Anderson [00:03:00]:

What I appreciate about it. Right. Is it was really clear, here's where the company's going. Here's the kind of people who are going to succeed at this company. And if you don't agree with either of those two things, you don't have to come work for my company.

Adam Hayes [00:03:13]:

It was easy.

Craig Anderson [00:03:14]:

Yeah.

Adam Hayes [00:03:14]:

Just crystal clear vision. Crystal clear execut.

Craig Anderson [00:03:18]:

And I find so often companies haven't thought through that, like, have a real clear vision of where we're going or have defined the kind of people that are going to be successful working there. And that's where you get to. You get slow, you make hiring mistakes, you're struggling with getting where you want to be. And that's usually where I start with clients. It's just like, let's figure out where you want to be in three years and let's figure out what successful people look like in your company. Then we can figure out the rest of it from there. And you've already spoiled it. But your leadership crush is that's Steve Jobs.

Adam Hayes [00:03:48]:

Yeah. I don't love everything about his leadership style, but I do like the vision aspect of holding the vision and being very clear and direct on it.

Craig Anderson [00:03:57]:

Yeah. So let me ask you the opposing question then. Where do you think some of the things were where his leadership was a little rough around the edges?

Adam Hayes [00:04:04]:

One of the stories that Isaacson drew out of that was the story about Apple Mail. Are you familiar with this story?

Craig Anderson [00:04:11]:

No. No.

Adam Hayes [00:04:12]:

Okay. So he goes into the room and he's doing a product review and they're talking about all the aspects of this thing like the RSS feed and this and. And this bell and whistle and that bell and whistle. He listens for about a half hour and he stands up and he goes, what's this app called again? They said mail. And he goes, then why the F doesn't it do that? And he left the room.

Craig Anderson [00:04:35]:

Oh, God. Yeah, that's blunt.

Adam Hayes [00:04:38]:

My style is totally different than that. He's rough around the edges in that way. I didn't appreciate that. Needless to say, it's a very impactful story.

Craig Anderson [00:04:45]:

I'm actually surprised if it was that bad. He let it go a whole half hour. Actually, one time. I remember when I did that in a meeting where I actually stood up and said, this is the wrong time. We're not here yet. There was like 15 people in the room. I was like, you pulled 15 people together. And none of us are ready for this conversation.

Craig Anderson [00:05:01]:

None of us are even ready for this topic. We're not wasting any more time. And I was probably overly blunt, but that's not usually my style at all. So, yeah, it is interesting, but I would say, yeah, he had a healthy vision and a healthy ego, so. Well, then, let's come back to the last question in the lightning round. What is your definition of leadership? Adam?

Adam Hayes [00:05:22]:

It's a broad question, Right. I don't think it's just one thing. I think it's a multitude of things. I think it's about having empathy for leadership and really wanting to be an empathetic human, to really lead people to better outcomes than they could achieve on their own behind a unified vision. And I think the courage to have difficult conversations with people, remain empathetic during those conversations. I think having clarity of values and purpose is important so that people can centralize around those things and feel like they're a part of something more than just themselves. I think there's many different aspects, but I would say, you know, those would be two of the bigger ones for me.

Craig Anderson [00:06:01]:

Gosh, you know, 10 years ago, we didn't talk about empathy at all.

Adam Hayes [00:06:04]:

Yeah, but the interesting thing, maybe we didn't talk about it, but we definitely were aware of it and recognized it. Maybe it was uncommunicated, but I think people observed it and I think people recognized it, and I think they appreciated it.

Craig Anderson [00:06:16]:

Yeah, I agree. All right, well, let's dive in. So tell me, Adam, you've had a long career in marketing, but what was your first time you really held a leadership role or were in a position of authority over a team?

Adam Hayes [00:06:29]:

Oh, gosh. It was probably a few years into my business. Right. And started hired a few people. What I found most difficult was trying to teach how we did what we did. It was an exercise in leadership, in understanding that there are multiple different ways to approach something, not just the way that I approach it. It was just eye opening for me. Right.

Adam Hayes [00:06:48]:

Sometimes I needed to lead by example, and sometimes I needed to lead by getting out of the way and letting them get from A to Z on their own to see what works for them. And what works could work better for the company rather than just the way that I was doing it. Kind of a balance between those two worlds, right? Like, hey, let me share some wisdom with you. But also, there may be a better way to do it.

Craig Anderson [00:07:09]:

And what kind of like, trial and error process was that for you? Because I don't know that you had an MBA in leadership when you started your business. How did you kind of figure that out?

Adam Hayes [00:07:19]:

I'm not as much a product of my success as a product of all the failures and the learning experiences that I've gained along the way from all those. So, yeah, I've grown tremendously as a leader, as a human being, through having other people to lead. And it's taught me a lot about myself and it's taught me a lot about other people and how interesting it is to lead a group of people with diverse viewpoints and diverse lenses on reality and to centralize around a common vision that we can actually all do if we allow ourselves to do it.

Craig Anderson [00:07:51]:

But in that first time when you first started adding people to the team, how clear was your vision for what you wanted and what you saw for the business? We were just talking about Steve Jobs and that vision. How clear were you back then for a vision to share with the team?

Adam Hayes [00:08:04]:

I was clear on the work that we were to perform for a client, but I wasn't really clear on, hey, this is what we want to build as an organization. Like, we didn't have an ideal client profile at the time. A client profile looked like somebody that was willing to pay and wanted some.

Craig Anderson [00:08:19]:

Good work done early in our businesses is our ideal client is someone who's willing to pay us to do something right, and then we evolve from there. But that first team, where did it start to get maybe challenging for you because you started out with a 3 or 4? Where did it start to be like a real thing of balancing and juggling both probably the vision of the business, selling the business and then delivering. Where did that kind of get to be a juggle for you as a small business owner?

Adam Hayes [00:08:46]:

When I wasn't involved in every aspect of bringing on a new client and the delivery of the work for a client, that's when things got really difficult. I didn't know that we were still delivering and being the human being that I am as an organization. And I was always Worried about our delivery for a client and wanting to do right by them. And so I worried a lot about that. And I know I didn't do the best job of trying to align everybody around. You know, hey, this is how we work. This is how we talk. This is how we put and structure the work together.

Adam Hayes [00:09:18]:

We're looking for outcomes that are centered around these things. Right. I didn't do that very well. And so letting go of the strings and then trying to rein it back in at times because it wasn't what I wanted, and learning how to communicate differently and lead differently. I mean, I started out with zero leadership experience other than leading myself. So it was literally trial by fire and significant growth and, you know, all the challenges that are associated with an owner, that I was pretty good at what I was doing and trying to then build an organization based off my skill set and transfer of knowledge. And so I didn't come to it as, hey, I was plopped out of Stanford University with an MBA in leadership, and all of a sudden I'm leading a team of 50 people. No, that's not how it came for me.

Craig Anderson [00:10:10]:

And it rarely does. We just kind of get in the crucible where we have this great idea, we're really passionate about it, we succeed, we add people, and now we have to figure out, all right, how do I get my brain and my outputs done through other people? And that's a real challenge.

Adam Hayes [00:10:26]:

Yeah, it was a real challenge.

Craig Anderson [00:10:28]:

So let's bring it forward. So today, this is how many years since you launched that first practice?

Adam Hayes [00:10:34]:

Officially, I incorporated in December of 2023, so this is 21 years.

Craig Anderson [00:10:39]:

All right, so now you've got the bumps and bruises to show for you've learned a lot of the leadership lessons. How are you different as the leader of your agency today?

Adam Hayes [00:10:49]:

I think in a multitude of ways, I've grown tremendously in my leadership ability to learn what the team needs and to have structure around how we proceed as a company, but also to understand when it may be time to push, when it may be time to pull the team, and when it maybe, you know, hey, if we do this, we're going to push the team to the ground. And it's just kind of the delicate balance of understanding the pulse of the team and reacting and responding to that in a way that's positive and continues to get us towards our goals.

Craig Anderson [00:11:23]:

With your experience now, how do you find that you best keep the pulse of the organization? How do you kind of make sure you're in touch with what's Going on.

Adam Hayes [00:11:33]:

We have, you know, a team meeting once a week. But I'm pretty involved in touch with the leaders in the organization to understand what's happening pretty much on a daily basis from them. I have touch points with them. So I kind of get a pulse and understanding of how we're trending towards the end of the week. And then we're all together as a leadership team on Fridays. And so it's a good check in time for us to understand are we on track, are we off track? If we're off track, where are we off track and how do we solve it together.

Craig Anderson [00:12:01]:

When did you pick up that idea that, hey, a regular meeting cadence with my leadership team to focus on what's going on on the day to day was a good idea. When did that kind of trigger for you?

Adam Hayes [00:12:12]:

I guess with the implementation of EOS, it really formalized. We were operating on what's called 12 week year before, which is a different style of system. But having the formality of having a weekly cadence and a weekly meeting came through eos and that's helped us get organized and centralized together around our vision and our mission and our all the things that go into that.

Craig Anderson [00:12:35]:

And when you started doing that, what did that kind of reveal to you? Was there some surprise that popped out from the business, like, oh, I didn't know these things were going on. Was there like a deeper understanding that came to things that you were maybe not even seeing before?

Adam Hayes [00:12:48]:

I think a couple of things. One, I think that we were all seeing things from a similar. I think we were seeing the same issues. What really helped was having everybody weigh in on what a possible solution or what possible solutions were and then organizing as a team to have buy in on how that problem is going to be solved. A little bit different approach and it was subtle, but it helped everybody have buy in in the solution because they had buy into the process and everybody.

Craig Anderson [00:13:18]:

Felt like they were part of the solution and worked together to get there. Right. That's a bit more ownership. Yeah. Okay. And has your team underneath them seen a difference since you started building more structure into the organization?

Adam Hayes [00:13:31]:

Yeah, for sure, Yes.

Craig Anderson [00:13:34]:

I wonder, like, how do you. We didn't say. But how many people do you have on your team today?

Adam Hayes [00:13:38]:

12.

Craig Anderson [00:13:39]:

So with that, how are you trying to work to get those people engaged in kind of understanding the vision of your business? You've talked about, you've gotten more clarity around that. How do you make sure they see it kind of a level below you in the organization every day?

Adam Hayes [00:13:53]:

That's really up to the other leaders to take that on daily basis and run with it. And so I come away from every Friday meeting and I'm just thankful that we implemented EOS honestly. I mean, I'm not trying to be a poster child for eos. I don't care what system it's called. I don't care if it was ABC system. Whatever system we're operating on right now is giving us clarity and visibility across the organization that I've never had in the 20, 21 years I've been doing this. It doesn't take EOS out of the equation. You can call it whatever system you want.

Adam Hayes [00:14:26]:

And tools and most other systems have similar tools. Right. So I think the unifying vision of that has become a living, breathing thing inside my organization. And so it's not just me pounding my chest saying, hey, do these things because it's going to get us there. Everyone was bought in. Everyone contributed to creating the vision for the organization. Creating the rock.

Craig Anderson [00:14:51]:

Right.

Adam Hayes [00:14:51]:

And creating the scorecard together. And we all have bought into what we're accomplishing together. So from after that standpoint, I didn't really. It's a lot easier for me. Everyone is integral, part of it and feels like they're contributing to it and in their special and unique way.

Craig Anderson [00:15:09]:

Yeah. And that I think is as we talked about a little bit before we started recording. Right. The important thing is that you have a system in place that takes your vision for the organization, make sure it's distributed through the organization that talks about here's the things that matter that we measure so everybody understands and it helps you. We didn't talk about this, but I would imagine it helps you get out of the day to day of the business because you can now see how are we producing on deliverables for our clients and revenue and expense and it's all coming up to you in a way that you don't have to go tap people on the shoulder every day and say, did we do this yet? Is this done? How is this coming along? Now you can see it at a different level.

Adam Hayes [00:15:49]:

Exactly. Yeah. We're not fully there yet in a few key areas. I'm still sitting in a couple of different seats and. But we have solutions in place for that and we have a plan in place for that. So I'm excited about moving to the visionary role on a full time basis, but we're a little ways away from that.

Craig Anderson [00:16:06]:

Yeah, but that's the big goal, right. Is to get to the point where you can focus on the future and See what's coming or at least think you can see what's coming and start to prepare for options and let other people handle the day to day. Love it. Love it. So if you could go back in time, Adam, I don't know if you have a favorite kind of time machine, the HB he wells. If you like a DeLorean, time travel with however you do it. If you could go back in time to that young Adam, 21 years ago when you started adding people to the team and said, adam, here's one thing. If you start doing it right now is going to make a difference for the business.

Adam Hayes [00:16:39]:

I would say figuring out who, if I had the same formula that I do right now for identifying an ideal client for ourselves, that would have made a tremendous difference for me back then.

Craig Anderson [00:16:52]:

So just starting to systematize and put some structures in place and don't wing it.

Adam Hayes [00:16:57]:

Yeah, exactly. And to hold to that vision of this is who we are as an organization and this is the people that we're going to work with.

Craig Anderson [00:17:05]:

Love it. Okay, so, Adam, that is great because it sounds like the evolution you've had as a leader has really led you to a point where now you can start to let go more and more all the time. Not as much as you'd like to be, but you've put structures in place, you've created a strong vision for the business, and that's really started to drive change for you.

Adam Hayes [00:17:23]:

Yeah, absolutely.

Craig Anderson [00:17:24]:

Well, so, Adam, if people want to learn more about your company and learn more about you, what are the best ways for them to do that? Where can they find you online or even in real life?

Adam Hayes [00:17:33]:

In real life, I'm in central Indiana, but I won't reveal my location. If they want to find out more about what we do and how we do it, our website, hayesgroupmarketing.com is a great place to start. We have marketing assessment tool on there. If they're confused about what their challenges are or even if they're clear on what their challenges are and they may have some blind spots, we also have case studies on there. We have testimonials on there. So it really is the best place to kind of understand who we are and see, you know, hey, are these guys a good fit for me personally and as an organization, they'll get a really clear picture of that on our website.

Craig Anderson [00:18:10]:

Perfect. Well, we will drop links to that in the show notes. Adam, again, thanks for sharing the story of your Executive Evolution, and we look forward to people connecting with you going forward. Thanks so much for Being here.

Adam Hayes [00:18:21]:

Thanks for having me on, man. Appreciate it.

Craig Anderson [00:18:26]:

Really enjoyed hearing the story of his Executive Evolution really from the standpoint of what it takes for a small business to grow and how the leader of that small business, the founder of that small business, has to grow and evolve throughout time to really become the leader that he needs to be at different stages in his business. As always, I want to bring out what I believe are the key points from our interview today in the key leadership areas of competence, competence and calm. In the area of competence, we spend some time in this. Towards the end, it's really important as you grow your team, you can't be involved in the day to day as much, but you need a solid system for staying on top of what's going on in your business, for making sure the messages you need from the top to go down and the information you have from the front lines of your organization to make its way up to you. That's how we can make better decisions as leaders in our small businesses. So it's really important to put those types of processes in place. In the area of confidence. One of the things Adam talked about in his journey is where his confidence grew in sharing the message with his team of the vision he had for the business and help them to see because once they understood the vision, then they can start acting more independently because they know where the business is headed.

Craig Anderson [00:19:38]:

That shows a lot of your own confidence when you were able to clearly communicate the vision for the business. And then the last area was the area of feeling calm. And what he talked about was that feeling he has now that he's in control of his business, now that he's communicated a vision, now that he has a plan and a process for getting information flowing up and down through the organization that gives him calm. He's not waking up in the middle of the night wondering about what's going on because he has a good handle on the business. So thanks again, Adam. Remember, you can go from being an accidental leader of your business to the greatest of all time leaders. All it takes is developing your confidence, confidence and calm. See you next time on Executive Evolution.